Additional NPCs

For discussing and sharing all forms of artwork related to the game

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yamgo
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Postby yamgo » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:08 pm

No problem! I have a photobucket account and I'll use that. I'll try to get her done by Saturday sometime.
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squidcat
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Postby squidcat » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:09 pm

Mind if I start with the dark shaman? I'm unsure from reading the thread whether that one's being worked on or not. Otherwise I'll grab that aristocrat with the pink sleeves, as I haven't seen any references to her in the recent posts.

Or, I could work on both - I've got a lot of time on my hands for the next few days anyway. Sound good?
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Jetryl
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Postby Jetryl » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:21 pm

squidcat wrote:Mind if I start with the dark shaman? I'm unsure from reading the thread whether that one's being worked on or not. Otherwise I'll grab that aristocrat with the pink sleeves, as I haven't seen any references to her in the recent posts.

Or, I could work on both - I've got a lot of time on my hands for the next few days anyway. Sound good?


Excellent! :approve: Either one is fine to work on, neither of them have been started by anyone.

Thanks a bunch.


yamgo wrote:No problem! I have a photobucket account and I'll use that. I'll try to get her done by Saturday sometime.


On a side note - it's no problem if these take a while, I understand (doing one of these can take me two evenings, sometimes, what with creating all the new directions). Do, however, post "works in progress" of the sprite sheet if you finish any significant chunk of work, and have to sign off for the night.

This is for a lot of reasons - it can help us crit work, and allow you to nip off a mistake before it gets propagated into -all- the images; meaning you'd only have to correct 50% of them. It also makes sure your work gets used if you, as they say in OSS parlance, "get hit by a bus" (i.e. face some life circumstance that prevents you from working on this anymore, and possibly). It'd be a shame for what you -had- done to not get used.
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Postby yamgo » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:50 pm

Oh alright, no problem. I was actually hoping someone could tell me how bad it looks so far. Here's what I've done, and yes, half her head is missing currently, also, I have the one facing forward at the bottom so I can see what I'm working on (sorry bout that).

[IMG:192:256]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/Yamgo/woman_npc02_walk.png[/img]
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Jetryl
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Postby Jetryl » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:22 pm

yamgo wrote:Oh alright, no problem. I was actually hoping someone could tell me how bad it looks so far. Here's what I've done, and yes, half her head is missing currently,


:huh: It's looking fairly good; your sizing of body parts, and your "following the rules" of keeping to the correct style is very good.

- I'm not sure how the foot movement looks. I'll have to test that in-game, and/or compare it to other sprites.

- The arms on the back view will obviously need to move; you can crib heavily from another female sprite, such as Vanica or Laila - it's very wasteful of time to not do so, and try to draw completely from scratch.

- The skirt should probably sway, or get pulled a bit more than it is now - I can take care of this if you want, since fabric dynamics are a bit tough. Feel free to try, though; it won't interfere with my doing so.

yamgo wrote:also, I have the one facing forward at the bottom so I can see what I'm working on (sorry bout that).


Don't be, that's smart, that keeps your sizing of things correct. :approve:
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yamgo
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Postby yamgo » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:37 pm

Jetryl wrote:The arms on the back view will obviously need to move; you can crib heavily from another female sprite, such as Vanica or Laila - it's very wasteful of time to not do so, and try to draw completely from scratch.


Well, actually I thought I was doing wrong by trying that. Thats actually how I got the ones I did. :D

Jetryl wrote:The skirt should probably sway, or get pulled a bit more than it is now - I can take care of this if you want, since fabric dynamics are a bit tough. Feel free to try, though; it won't interfere with my doing so.


Well I'll give it a try, I wanna try and learn this myself, but you're the boss if you wanna take over.

Jetryl wrote:Don't be, that's smart, that keeps your sizing of things correct. :approve:


Heh, thanks.
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squidcat
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Postby squidcat » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:25 am

Excellent. I've got all night to work, so you'll see some dark shaman progress in a few hours. I wish I'd discovered Allacrost sooner.
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Roots
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Postby Roots » Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:06 am

squidcat wrote:I wish I'd discovered Allacrost sooner.


So do we. :angel: BTW out of curiosity, where did you discover us?
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Postby squidcat » Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:12 am

My husband pointed pointed you out to me, and he knows that this sort of thing is right up my alley. I'm not where he found you, though.
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Postby squidcat » Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:19 pm

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MindFlayer
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Postby MindFlayer » Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:27 pm

Now if only would someone make that into a .gif animation... :D
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Postby MindFlayer » Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:06 pm

Very nice! :approve:
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Jetryl
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Postby Jetryl » Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:10 pm

MindFlayer wrote:Very nice! :approve:


Excellent. :approve: That's exactly the kind of work we need to get this game done.


As far as critiques go, that animation is basically spot-on; about the only thing that could possibly be added would be to make the earrings sway, and possibly to make center of the chest rotate (like the front of the pelvis does). It's good enough thus far that I don't know if these would even be an improvement, they're certainly not "necessary" in any way. Excellent work, please do continue.
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Postby funkaphile » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:47 pm

Hello I'm new here.
Just would like to add some critique on the piece above as I think it still needs a bit of work before it's presentable.

1. The arm and hand movement is a bit sketchy. You should clean up your lines and make sure that they're only 1 pixel thick. Doing this will make it look less rough and more clean.

2. It looks like hes swaying his arms from side to side more than pulling them back. I'd suggest making his arms move less horizontally.

3. The legs and feet are too close together. Do you know anyone who walks with their legs touching? This seems to be a problem with some of the other walk sheets that I've seen on this page as well.

That's about it, good start though. Sorry if this came out a bit harsh and coming from a newcomer too but I want the best for the project.

I'll start posting the ones I've finished once I get a reply back from jetryl on the npcs that need to be started so I can make some from scratch.
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Jetryl
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Postby Jetryl » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:46 am

funkaphile wrote:Hello I'm new here.
Just would like to add some critique on the piece above as I think it still needs a bit of work before it's presentable.

1. The arm and hand movement is a bit sketchy. You should clean up your lines and make sure that they're only 1 pixel thick. Doing this will make it look less rough and more clean.


I disagree, the only area where that's seen is on the underside of the arm, and there, it is a shadow. It's necessary for the arms to have the correct volume, and it's part of the style.

funkaphile wrote:2. It looks like hes swaying his arms from side to side more than pulling them back. I'd suggest making his arms move less horizontally.


That would be an improvement - chiefly, it's the outer arm, the arm reaching back, that does it, not the one in front of the body.

funkaphile wrote:3. The legs and feet are too close together. Do you know anyone who walks with their legs touching? This seems to be a problem with some of the other walk sheets that I've seen on this page as well.


I actually disagree with this; your thinking is a common mistake amongst people new to animation. To use the words of Stephen Silver (the guy who made Kim Possible) “Draw what you see, not what you think you see!” What's going on here is that you're making an assumption based on the very foggy memory of human beings; generally, as in this case, it's assuming a simplified version of the motion actually demonstrated by real humans; a simplified version that leaves out certain very important, but subtle details. We don't remember things clearly, and our internal, untrained memory can report back things that are horribly incorrect.


Most human beings place their feet partly in front of each other while walking, rather than only moving their feet forward and backwards like a lego person. For example, if a person were walking down the middle of a road, on top of the 2-3inch wide painted strip, it is likely that the inner sides of both of the feet would be touching the strip. The soles of the feet move inwards towards the centerpoint underneath their body. When a person runs, this is even more dramatic; the soles of the feet end up falling in nearly a straight line.

When this is projected into 2d, as seen here, it appears that the legs are touching each other, but what isn't seen is how far apart they are front-to-back during a stride.


Don't take it from me, take it from Chrono Trigger - if you look at this animation, the legs are likewise "touching" each other:
[img:135:75]http://www.allacrost.org/staff/user/jetryl/Examples/CT-walk.png[/img]
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Postby funkaphile » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:08 am

The "shadow" as you call it on the arm is acceptable I guess but I'm just saying that it just makes it look rough and alot like a thick and jagged outline.

As for the legs of course when its a smaller sprite it isn't really a problem. I know that the legs would look close together in a basic walk animation but in the animation above it looks as if the legs are almost pushing into each other. Here's some examples of walk animations that show what I think it should look more like.
http://www.pixeljoint.com/ws/player.asp ... alking.gif
This one has the legs completely apart, which in my perspective looks more natural.
http://www.pixeljoint.com/ws/player.asp ... alking.gif
This one on the other hand has your approach, which is perfectly fine. What I'd like to point out is that there's still a visible space between the legs and its not completely touching as in the animation by squidcat.

Then here's one of my pieces which I use the legs apart approach. Kinda small but you can get what I'm going for. It's not as anatomically accurate as the way you do it and how the artist in the last link did it but I think it still looks cleaner than the animation from squidcat.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/ ... lesEND.gif
I'm just saying maybe separate the legs a little so they don't look squashed together.

And yeah it's all stylistic choice and up to the artist so if you feel that your way is better, than do it your way. I'm just giving some tips on some of what I think would help the art.
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Rain
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Postby Rain » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:09 am



Very good! I think this is an excellent effort all around.

On a less serious note, It almost looks like the sprite is dancing.

funkaphile wrote:I'm just saying maybe separate the legs a little so they don't look squashed together
While you bring up a good point, it will be difficult to have the legs apart without creating a gap.

I mean, if the legs are too far apart, then it may give the impression, because of the sprite design, that the character in question has hemmorhoids or a bowel problem. In this case, its best to keep the spaces small to alleviate an awkward and possibly unnecessary aesthetic quality...
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funkaphile
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Postby funkaphile » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:21 am

Rain wrote:
On a less serious note, It almost looks like the sprite is dancing.


Yeah I think that's due to the swaying of the hands.

On another note I think the legs should be more like one of Jetryl's pieces.
http://www.allacrost.org/staff/user/jet ... 1_walk.png
In this, you can see there is a small distance between the legs. It doesn't look at all the legs are pushed together or too close. It looks natural and clean, not too far apart and not too close.
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Postby squidcat » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:38 am

Heh, I was working on changing everything that bothered me about that walk - I'd copied his walk frame posturing directly over the templates I yanked from the wiki, and that turned out... well, not so great. As you can (obviously) see.

I've added a couple more colors into the sprite and modified his stance somewhat to help alleviate the awkward limb/YAY HAPPY DISCO SHAMAN problem, but...

The half-modified version is currently floating around in flash drive limbo until my new computer arrives, unfortunately. Trust me, if I'd known this piece o' crap would start throwing fits on the half-hour I wouldn't have tried jumping into the project so fast. :(

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