Lets talk about stats and formulas

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Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Roots » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:55 am

Relevant wiki pages (feel free to edit these as necessary):

There's quite a lot of ground to cover in these topics, so starting out lets focus on character stats. I'm going to provide a quick overview about them to get the discussion rolling. As of tonight, we have the following stats:
  • HP/MaxHP - character health
  • SP/MaxSP - skill points (skills require 0 or more SP to execute)
  • Fatigue - each point of fatigue reduces MaxHP by one and remains after battles (until party visits an inn to rest)
  • Strength - physical attack
  • Vigor - ethereal (aka magical) attack damage
  • Fortitude - physical defense
  • Protection - ethereal defense
  • Agility - characters with more agility wait a shorter amount of time between selecting actions in battle
  • Stamina - characters with more stamina accumulate fatigue more slowly
  • Evade - the chance that a character has to dodge an attack (currently the only base stat that is not an integer number, but rather a percentage)

Each character has a total of four "targets" on their body (also called attack points...we haven't figured out a good name for what to call these). Each target has a percentage modifier to the stats: fortitude, protection, and evade. For example, a target may have a modifier of 0.25 fortitude, -0.10 protection, and 0.0 evade. This translates to that target having a 25% higher fortitude rating, a 10% lower protection rating, and no change in the evade rating.

How do character stats change?
All base stats grow through gaining experience levels. There is currently no other way of doing so. There are two exceptions to this, however:

- Fatigue is a stat that grows as the character receives damage across battles, and is reset to zero after resting at an inn or other healing points in the game
- The modifier stats on the targets for a character never change

How are stats defined, as well as their growth?
Take a look at the file lua/data/actors/characters.lua. Each character listed there has some initial stats (the stats they are given when they first join the party in the game). The also have a growth table, which contains rows of numbers that this stat grows by for the character for each level. For example, here's a couple of Claudius' current growth stats (these are only defined for levels 1-20 currently):

Code: Select all

-- Begin character growth tables. Every line within these tables contains 10 elements to represent the stat growth for every 10 levels
growth = {
experience_for_next_level = {
   100, 112, 126, 142, 161, 183, 209, 238, 273, 315,
   363, 421, 490, 572, 670, 788, 931, 1105, 1316, 1575
      },

hit_points = {
   5, 5, 5, 5, 13, 13, 13, 13, 21, 21,
   21, 21, 29, 29, 29, 29, 37, 37, 37, 37
      },


Periodic Stats Growth
There is a feature called periodic stat growth that you're probably unaware of. This feature is almost fully coded and has been intended for the design for quite a while, but it is currently not an active feature in the game. This feature takes approximately half of the gains in each stat that would normally be rewarded after reaching the next experience level and divides these gains out across small chunks as the player receives experience. As an example, lets say Claudius is to gain 25 HP at the next level gain. He's currently at level 3, with an total XP of 1000 and needs an additional 400 XP to reach level 4. The algorithm would take roughly half of this number (12 HP) for periodic growth. Then it would divide it into several small chunks (lets say 5 chunks, 3 of them at 2HP and 2 of them at 3HP). Then it would pick XP points needed to get these periodic gains by evenly distributing them across the amount of XP needed to level. So 400 / 5 = every 80 XP a chunk would be rewarded. Once Claudius gets to 1080 XP, he would get either 2HP or 3HP.

Make sense? Below is a comment in the code where this algorithm needs to be implemented.

Code: Select all

// TODO: Implement a gradual growth algorithm.
   // The following scheme is suggested for this algorithm:
   // 1) Divide all stat gains by 2. Half is rewarded gradually, while the other half is rewarded when the next level is reached
   // 2) If a stat does not grow by more than one point, award all growth for that stat at the next level
   // 3) Divide the gradual amount of the growth into a number of small sections (ie, +10 HP => +2 HP 5 times)
   // 4) Evenly space the growth distributed based on the range of current XP to the XP needed to reach the next level


So, what's the purpose behind periodic growth?. The idea is to give the player continuous rewards for progressing through battles. Instead of having to fight 20 or 30 or more battles before the player sees any sort of progress in their characters, they can see the gradual progression more clearly. And we still reward 50% or more of the total growth for a level gain once the level XP requirements are left, so there's still that "milestone reached" feeling for the player as well.

How does equipment interact with stats?
Equipment does not modify any stat values directly. Weapons provide an increase in attack power (calculated by strength + weapon phys attack power + skill phys attack power). So while weapons effectively provide a boost to strength and/or vigor, they do not directly modify these stat values. Weapons only provide physical/ethereal attack bonuses, and armor apply only physical/ethereal defense bonuses.

How do skills interact with stats?
Other than skills to restore HP or SP, they don't. Stats are used in damage calculations along with a skills attack power, but that's it.

Are there any limits set for different stats? What ranges do we want for the various stats?
Currently there are no limits to the values for each stat. We haven't discussed anything as far as value ranges, but personally speaking I don't want to have absurdly high numbers (think 100,000 or greater for HP/SP, or 1,000 or greater for stats like strength or agility)


---------------------

Now some questions for us to answer. I have my own set of answers here for most of them, but I want to hear what you guys think before I share my own thoughts. :)
  • Should equipment affect more than just attack/defense ratings? Would it be more fun/strategic to have equipment that may also modify other stats? (ex: heavy armor that increases stamina, light-handed weapon that improves agility, and so on)?
  • If equipment does modify stats, should it be able to negatively impact a stat? Or should stat changes always be either zero or a positive number?
  • Should there be other ways to grow stats other than just gaining experience?
  • Do you like the periodic growth feature? Does it make sense given our design goals? Or do you feel it doesn't provide any value?
  • Should we change the evade stat so that instead of a percentage, it's an integer figure like all the other stats? If so, what sort of formula (or integer value -> evade percentage) do you propose?
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby gorogorosama » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:40 am

- Should equipment affect more than just attack/defense ratings? Would it be more fun/strategic to have equipment that may also modify other stats? (ex: heavy armor that increases stamina, light-handed weapon that improves agility, and so on)?

While it would definitely be interesting to have equipment that can affect various stats, I would not worry about this for the year-end release?


- If equipment does modify stats, should it be able to negatively impact a stat? Or should stat changes always be either zero or a positive number?

I'm not sure it matters so much. Players will mostly be comparing Equipment A to Equipment B, so there will of course be impacts in both directions.


- Should there be other ways to grow stats other than just gaining experience?

I would be very happy for quests that can grant you this or that boost, instead of simple XP. But again, wouldn't worry about it for the release.


- Do you like the periodic growth feature? Does it make sense given our design goals? Or do you feel it doesn't provide any value?

I'm on the fence about this. I don't know that the gains are worth the sacrifice of simplicity, but honestly could go either way.


- Should we change the evade stat so that instead of a percentage, it's an integer figure like all the other stats? If so, what sort of formula (or integer value -> evade percentage) do you propose?

My main concern with Evade is that there is no counter to it. Meaning I can increase an actor's ability to dodge, but not his accuracy.

If instead you had an integer Dexterity stat (call it what you may) you could do something like:
Chance for Adam to hit Ben = Adam's Dext / (Adam's Dext + Ben's Dext)

If Adam and Ben have the same Dext, there's a 50% chance for one to hit the other. If Adam has 2x Ben's Dext, he has a 66% chance to hit him. It's never 100% and it's never 0%.


- Duration of Status Effects

This is another issue I think we may run into. Right now the duration of a status effect is hard-coded into the skill. Meaning a Stun will have the same duration on Adam or on Ben. Maybe we need some sort of "constitution" stat? Or break the effects out into Physical and Ethereal with stats for each?

I would say don't worry about it until after the year-end, but landing a Stun on the Goliath Scorpion will make the battle too easy. At the same time I hate when the bosses are simply immune to effects, because then why do I even need those skills?
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Atypikal_Arkitect » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:07 pm

I agree with gorogorosama that the release date should be taken into consideration which each point. Momentarily leaving that aside:

• Should equipment affect more than just attack/defense ratings? Would it be more fun/strategic to have equipment that may also modify other stats? (ex: heavy armor that increases stamina, light-handed weapon that improves agility, and so on)?

Yes, I think the fun/strategic value gained from it out-weights the predictability we gain as designers, as it gives the player a method of further customizing their characters with more diverse ‘build’ options.

It might also be interesting if we had high end ‘sets’ of items that gave stacking benefits.

• If equipment does modify stats, should it be able to negatively impact a stat? Or should stat changes always be either zero or a positive number?

Certainly those kinds of drawbacks makes things more interesting but perhaps for simplicity's sake we should stick to providing only positives and create cost benefit decisions through that. Am a bit torn on the issue :shrug:

• Should there be other ways to grow stats other than just gaining experience?

Yes. We could consider further customization to items in terms of optional enchantments some of which can and cannot be overridden.

For more permanent measures we could add ‘trainers’ who for a price increase a stat a set number of times, or books. One downside to this is it makes it harder to predict how strong a player will be at any point when creating challenges, namely bosses.

• Do you like the periodic growth feature? Does it make sense given our design goals? Or do you feel it doesn't provide any value?

I like the idea. If we do it we should clearly convey it the player. Perhaps we could play with the exp gain page to include a segmented bar for each character that has some nice visual feedback.

I see its value in being an avenue for positive ‘leveling feedback’ particularly at the higher levels + has the potential to give a sorely needed extra boost to players who might be midway through a dungeon. Lastly it feels more natural that a character would grow in strength over time as they gained experience rather than a significant amount so suddenly.

I’m assuming if done it would be factored in to their current hp and not reset their hp/sp to full as I think happens during level ups?

• Should we change the evade stat so that instead of a percentage, it's an integer figure like all the other stats? If so, what sort of formula (or integer value -> evade percentage) do you propose?

Yes, the percentage can then be more realistically calculated on a per battle basis (if it isn’t already?). Have you considered a separate evade for magic and physical attacks?

I’m not much of a statistician, perhaps we could use something like this:

Total Defense / Total Defense + Total Enemy Offense

Where the terms defense and offense refers to its parties single or several stat(s). We could inverse the number if we find its consistently too high.
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Djinn_in_Tonic » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:05 pm

gorogorosama wrote:While it would definitely be interesting to have equipment that can affect various stats, I would not worry about this for the year-end release?


Agreed. Definitely not for the upcoming release, anyway.

- If equipment does modify stats, should it be able to negatively impact a stat? Or should stat changes always be either zero or a positive number?


Negatives tend to feel bad. I'd rather just have stats grant bonuses to be compared to each other.

I'm on the fence about this. I don't know that the gains are worth the sacrifice of simplicity, but honestly could go either way.


Personally I'm not a fan: it's less visible, and probably doesn't provide that much of an impact.

- Should we change the evade stat so that instead of a percentage, it's an integer figure like all the other stats? If so, what sort of formula (or integer value -> evade percentage) do you propose?


I'd actually consider making Evade and Fortitude BOTH percentages, since it makes it much clearer: X% chance to avoid an attack, X% of Fortitude damage negated.

My main concern with Evade is that there is no counter to it. Meaning I can increase an actor's ability to dodge, but not his accuracy.


I'd consider accuracy, definitely. I might also consider actually SHOWING your % chance to hit, especially if we want body part targeting to be encouraged.

This is another issue I think we may run into. Right now the duration of a status effect is hard-coded into the skill. Meaning a Stun will have the same duration on Adam or on Ben. Maybe we need some sort of "constitution" stat? Or break the effects out into Physical and Ethereal with stats for each?


I'd consider just making either the same across the board (is there a reason a stun SHOULDN'T be the same for everyone? I'm not convinced...), or blend it into Fortitude so that tanks are better at resisting Fatigue AND less subject to crowd-control or certain status effects. Encourages blocking and so forth, again.
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Roots » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:35 pm

Yes, not everything we talk about needs to (or should) be changed for the year end release. I mostly wanted to get a conversation going here related to attributes because at least some things we discuss here will have an impact on the near future.

• Should equipment modify stats other than attack/defense?


I definitely think it will be more interesting if they do. It also feels like this will better align this aspect of the game with our "strategic" design goal, and make equipment trade-offs more interesting. Having them only affect stats positively would be more simple from a design point, but doing so would limit our freedom to design equipment that have more apparent trade-offs. I could go either way on this particular question.

• How do character stats change?

Personally, I'm not a fan of items that provide minor stat bonuses (the Lufia series did this quite a bit). I do like, however, having certain events/sequences/side quests that can grant players significant stat bonuses. For example, maybe Claudius finds a hidden cabin in the woods that is the home to a retired swordsman. Maybe Claudius can fight the swordsman and, if he impresses him enough (deals enough damage), the swordsman teaches him a way to better utilize his weapon, increasing the strength stat by 15. A lot more rewarding and interesting than finding an item in the chance that grants +2 strength or whatever.

I do want to limit the number of opportunities for "outside" stat growth though, mostly to make sure that we don't make characters imbalanced by allowing them to exploit optional means of stat growth. Note that we could also use these sorts of quests to grant XP, which of course would naturally promote stat growth and level gains. Although at the moment there's no way to report XP/stat growth on the map except to pop up a text dialogue stating what changed.

• Thoughts on periodic stat growth

I am, and always have been, a very strong supporter of this feature. I think constantly rewarding the player is a good thing, and makes each fight feel more meaningful. Plus, as I said, the feature is nearly complete (the most work required would be the UI in the battle victory screen to show the growth). And no, a growth in HP/SP would not restore HP/SP to full (it would only increase the max HP/SP and the current HP/SP by that amount). Same goes for gaining an experience level. I'm not a fan of of the mechanic where you are restored to 100% health whenever you gain a level.

• Changes to evade stat


I don't like that it is a percentage currently and would like it changed, but at the same time would like whatever change is made to make sense (ie, what does an evade rating of "57" mean?). That's the difficult part, because an evade of 5.0% is pretty obvious in comparison. And no, I've never thought about having separate evade ratings for physical vs ethereal. We could do that if we wanted to, but I'm rather :| about the idea of having two evade ratings.

While I want the evade changed, I have no idea what to change it to or how it should work. :shrug: I do kind of like goro's suggestion of a dexterity stat, since currently miss percentage is only a factor of the defender's ability to evade, and not the accuracy of the attacker. Maybe we could have another stat: dexterity and evade. And use these two numbers to come up with a formula to calculate evasion percentage? :shrug:

• Duration of Status Effects

I was going to eventually make another thread for us to talk about status effects, but I'll touch on it here. I want status effects to be consistent, which is why status effects have multiple degrees of intensity that they can cause. For example, poison at the highest intensity saps 15% of health each round, while poison at the lowest intensity saps only 2%. For the stun effect, the more intense the status, the longer it lasts. So we can configure that "stun strike" ability we currently have in the game to afflict the stun status for the lowest intensity (let's say, 3 seconds) or up to the highest intensity (maybe 15 seconds).

I'm not really a fan of stats that affect the intensity, duration of, or recovery from status effects. It becomes too difficult to figure out if inflicting a status is "worth it", because for every enemy it's going to be different. I do understand what your intentions are behind this, but I think the complexity and difficulty to determine how potent an effect would be outweighs the benefit from allowing enemies to be more or less resistant to status effects. :disapprove:

I do, however, agree with you that it sucks when status effects are useless against a boss. We'll have to strike a careful balance to make sure that status effects are useful in boss fights, but aren't so powerful that they make the fights trivial to win with the right strategy.


I'd consider accuracy, definitely. I might also consider actually SHOWING your % chance to hit, especially if we want body part targeting to be encouraged.


I'm a big fan of this. :approve: It's hard for the player to make a strategy when they don't have access to such critical information.
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby gorogorosama » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:15 pm

Djinn_in_Tonic wrote:is there a reason a stun SHOULDN'T be the same for everyone?

I imagine Aerith and Barret are feeling quite differently after the same volume of vodka :P

But I agree using fortitude and protection for these makes a lot of sense.


Roots wrote:I'm not really a fan of stats that affect the intensity, duration of, or recovery from status effects. It becomes too difficult to figure out if inflicting a status is "worth it", because for every enemy it's going to be different.

I really don't think this is something you can avoid. You just can't let the player stun the Goliath Scorpion for 30 seconds. But stunning 1 of 5 enemies in a normal battle for 6 seconds is rather useless.

Maybe in order to keep things clear to the player we could round off the effects into "stacks". When he stuns an enemy he can clearly see how many "stacks" of the effect have been applied, and how many stacks the enemy is still fighting off?
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Atypikal_Arkitect » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:19 pm

Djinn_in_Tonic wrote:I'd consider accuracy, definitely. I might also consider actually SHOWING your % chance to hit, especially if we want body part targeting to be encouraged.


Good idea. Through my first play through I ended up just spammed attacking the head of creeps, so I agree definitely more info needs to be conveyed to the player regarding the differences between attack points.

gorogorosama wrote:I really don't think this is something you can avoid. You just can't let the player stun the Goliath Scorpion for 30 seconds. But stunning 1 of 5 enemies in a normal battle for 6 seconds is rather useless.


I agree this is something important to consider. How about instead of having stats that effect status duration's, we could opt for a simpler option and use percentage based properties e.g.:

  • Stun resistance - half the duration of stuns.
  • Stun immunity - complete resistance to stuns.

This could then conveyed through "resisted" text appearing on resisting the effect, or through some other means.
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Roots » Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:12 pm

Atypikal_Arkitect wrote:
gorogorosama wrote:I really don't think this is something you can avoid. You just can't let the player stun the Goliath Scorpion for 30 seconds. But stunning 1 of 5 enemies in a normal battle for 6 seconds is rather useless.


I agree this is something important to consider. How about instead of having stats that effect status duration's, we could opt for a simpler option and use percentage based properties e.g.:

  • Stun resistance - half the duration of stuns.
  • Stun immunity - complete resistance to stuns.

This could then conveyed through "resisted" text appearing on resisting the effect, or through some other means.


I really like this idea. :approve: In fact, I think we already have (non-active) code that implements something to this effect now that I think about it.
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Roots » Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:55 pm

Some more information on evade/dexterity:

This morning I recalled why in that pas we only have had an evade stat but no dexterity or "accuracy" stat for characters and enemies (collectively, I refer to both these describers as "actors). The reason is because of the attack targets. We wanted some targets (head) to be harder to hit than others, so we put our focus on the evade ability.

Now we can add a dexterity ability as well, or we could have skills that have better (or worse) accuracy, which is where I think we were originally heading with the design. So rather than saying "this character has good accuracy" we can say "these skills have good accuracy", and give those skills to a character whom we desire to be more accurate. And since it has been suggested that we put accuracy percentage in the battle UI when a skill and target is being selected, I see no compelling reason why we would have an overall accuracy/dexterity stat for a character. We can make much more interesting and diverse characters by playing around with properties of skills than properties of the actor directly. Does that sound alright as a general design direction to you guys?


On the topic of skills, we can literally use whatever sort of damage, evasion, status affliction, etc. formulas that we want for skills. There's really no limit but our imagination there. They could temporarily reduce stats for a battle, deal damage over time, have multiple "strikes" in the attack, affect the entire party, and so on. We shouldn't get too crazy, for the sake of not breaking well-defined game mechanics (ex, maybe it's not a good idea to allow attacks that deal only fatigue damage), but we can debate those when the topic comes up.
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby gorogorosama » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:37 pm

Caaaaan we have a status-ailment that reduces an actor's ability to land successful hits (like blind)?
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Roots » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:31 pm

gorogorosama wrote:Caaaaan we have a status-ailment that reduces an actor's ability to land successful hits (like blind)?


Absolutely. I think such a status effect is a must-have personally. I do want to open up a design thread on discussing status effects (mostly, coming up with a list of status effects we want to implement in the game). I've resisted the urge to do so though because of the amount and frequency of our other ongoing discussions. Once we have HP/SP/fatigue figured out, we can begin discussing status effects.
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Djinn_in_Tonic » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:35 pm

Roots wrote:Now we can add a dexterity ability as well, or we could have skills that have better (or worse) accuracy, which is where I think we were originally heading with the design. So rather than saying "this character has good accuracy" we can say "these skills have good accuracy", and give those skills to a character whom we desire to be more accurate. And since it has been suggested that we put accuracy percentage in the battle UI when a skill and target is being selected, I see no compelling reason why we would have an overall accuracy/dexterity stat for a character. We can make much more interesting and diverse characters by playing around with properties of skills than properties of the actor directly. Does that sound alright as a general design direction to you guys?


As long as the information between skill accuracy is cleanly presented to the player when they make their choices, I'm fine with that design direction, yes.

On the topic of skills, we can literally use whatever sort of damage, evasion, status affliction, etc. formulas that we want for skills. There's really no limit but our imagination there. They could temporarily reduce stats for a battle, deal damage over time, have multiple "strikes" in the attack, affect the entire party, and so on. We shouldn't get too crazy, for the sake of not breaking well-defined game mechanics (ex, maybe it's not a good idea to allow attacks that deal only fatigue damage), but we can debate those when the topic comes up.


Sounds good to me. Let's make sure Fatigue tests well first though, since that's a big part of our design concept so far.
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Roots » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:57 pm

http://www.allacrost.org/wiki/index.php/Attributes

I updated this wiki page based on our recent changes in design.
  • Added stamina attribute (used for HP fatigue)
  • Added resilience attribute (used for SP fatigue)
  • Removed Cool Down Time from skill attributes
  • Made a note that most/all skills will not have a use outside of battle due to our full HP/SP restore.

Items we still need to come to an agreement on:
* Renaming of stamina attribute
Djinn mentioned this in another thread. I'm certainly open to giving this a better/more appropriate name. Especially since we refer to the action state graphic on the battle UI as the "stamina bar" currently (if we don't rename the stamina attribute, we should definitely rename the stamina bar to the action bar or something else). Any suggestions for renaming stamina?

I tend to reference a thesaurus a lot when coming up with names like this. I do really like the resilience attribute though, and I think this name should not change. :angel:

* Make evade stat numeric instead of a percentage and develop a good formula
There hasn't been any strong objection to not keeping this stat as a percentage, but we still don't have (I think) a solid suggestion for how a numeric evade stat would determine the hit/miss chance. Until we have a sensible formula to begin testing, this stat will have to remain a percentage.

* Proposal of separating evade stat into separate physical and ethereal evasion stats
Pretty self-explanatory. This would allow customization of some enemies that are very adept at dodging physical attacks, encouraging the player to target them with ethereal ones instead. Adds a little more customization of characters at the cost of an additional stat to display to the character and the designer to balance.

* Proposal of a dexterity/hit % attribute
Currently hit/miss ability is calculated only by an actor's evade % stat and any custom calculation by a skill (ex. we could have a skill that has a 99% hit rate regardless of an actor's evasion stat, or one that takes the target's evade stat and divides it by 5 in calculation that skill's chance to hit, etc). Proposed is a new stat that would determine the accuracy of an actor. We may also have two dexterity-like stats: one for physical abilities and one for ethereal abilities.

(Alternative suggestion is to let hit% be an attribute of individual skills instead of the user of the skill).

* Show a skill's chance to hit successfully in the battle UI's command window
We all seem to be in favor of this one. But are there other pieces of data we want to show along with chance to hit? Like for instance, an estimate of the damage dealt? That way it will be really clear to the player that targeting the head = more damage but higher miss, while torso = lower damage but less likely to miss, for example.


There are other concerns about things like status effects in the thread, but let's hold off on those discussions until we can get on the same page with attributes and formulas for those attributes. Then we can discuss status and elemental effects in another thread and figure out how to plug those variables into our equations. :)
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Atypikal_Arkitect » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:52 pm

Roots wrote:Renaming of stamina attribute


How about Endurance?

Roots wrote:Make evade stat numeric instead of a percentage and develop a good formula


Will continue to consider the issue.

Roots wrote:Proposal of separating evade stat into separate physical and ethereal evasion stats


I think this would be good for enemies, as it gives the designers more customization options. I don't think it would be good for players as I see evasion to be a secondary source of protection in-case a player has "misbuilt" their defenses for a certain enemy type.

Roots wrote:Proposal of a dexterity/hit % attribute


I lean towards keeping it simple and having only one %hit attribute for players as strength/vigor allocation will already punish a player if they are not built for that attack type. If designers find that having two attributes help them build better enemies than have those stats available to customize for enemies.

Roots wrote:Show a skill's chance to hit successfully in the battle UI's command window


Fallout 3 only displayed the chance to hit. As we will design it as lower chance to hit will translate to higher damage, I think that's already quite natural and intuitive in the mind of the player, e.g its common gamer knowledge like head = higher damage. So I don't think displaying the damage is necessary.
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Roots » Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:43 pm

I more or less agree with everything stated above. Having separate magic/defense evasion for enemies but not players might be confusing though. In general, I'd like to keep the stats the same for both actor types, not only does it make it easier for the player to understand (I would assume that the stats are the same were I a player), but it's also cleaner in the code for both actors to share stats and a common interface for interacting with them (which is how things work now). If we're talking about adding separate evade stats to enemies only, I think that's something we can consider later down the road since we would never need to show these stats to the player.


Endurance isn't a bad alternative. I decided to look up the definition of stamina just to see if it really didn't represent what we mean it to in the game:
stamina
1. The energy and strength for continuing to do something over a long period of time; power of sustained exertion, or resistance to hardship, illness etc.

2. the ability to sustain prolonged physical or mental effort.

3. enduring energy, strength, and resilience

4. the ability of an organism to exert itself and remain active for a long period of time, as well as its ability to resist, withstand, recover from, and have immunity to trauma, wounds, or fatigue


So umm.....stamina is pretty much the most accurate word I think exists to represent this trait. :heh:
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Atypikal_Arkitect
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby Atypikal_Arkitect » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:07 pm

Roots wrote:If we're talking about adding separate evade stats to enemies only


Yep.

Roots wrote:So umm.....stamina is pretty much the most accurate word I think exists to represent this trait


Sure, just I as a gamer associate stamina with some kind of exertion of effort (like the stamina bar we have) rather than as a form of resistance. Anyways it fits as a definition and if for some reason we find it to be a source of confusion I'm sure we can think of something else.
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gorogorosama
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Re: Lets talk about stats and formulas

Postby gorogorosama » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:41 am

* Proposal of a dexterity/hit % attribute

I think this really depends on the big-picture of the game. Based on what we have now, all characters share the same skills. So being able to give one character higher accuracy might be interesting. If, however, most skills will NOT be shared between characters, then we can certainly get by without accuracy, and keep things simple


* Make evade stat numeric instead of a percentage and develop a good formula

This one really depends on whether or not were going to have dexterity / accuracy. If so, we can come with a nice formula. If not, I would keep it as a percentage. It's very clear, and I don't think the format inconsistency is such a big deal.


* Proposal of separating evade stat into separate physical and ethereal evasion stats

We already have separate defenses for physical and ethereal, so I don't know that this extra stat would improve the game as much as it complicates things...

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