Signs of power

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Burnsaber
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Signs of power

Postby Burnsaber » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:09 pm

There is a one bad thing i have noticed in Final Fantasies and its siblings. I would be quite delighted to find that this game wouldn`t have the same bad thing. Im talking about "Signs of Power"-issue.

The thing is that in Final Fantasies and stuff you gain awesome powers to defeat the gods themeselves, but who cares? Or notices? I find it quite strange that the character don`t say anything about it. "Hey look, i can defeat demigods and horrible monsters with ease! Who cares? Better not ot talk about it." I myself would boast like there wouldn`t be tomorrow, not all would react this way but no-one would just left it unmentioned!

I just played Baldurs Gate 2; Thorne of Bhaal which handles this issue quite nicely. The thorne of Bhaal is third instalment of the series and the characters have grown quite powerfull in it. As an example you meet an Lich (a very nasty monster, but not when you`re in level 25! :devil:). I was suprised that it didn`t want to fight! When you asked him about it, it anwsered " I have no quabble with someone as powerfull as you. You would defeat me." (not exactly like that, but close). Man my just ego doupled its size! At the beginnig of adventure Lich was something that you just couldn`t even dream to defeat, but now things are different! Mu-hahahhahahaa!

Sure in final fantasies you go beat goblins with lv.99 charcters, but where`s the fun when none of the charters mentions how they have grown (in power). You could have for example a scene in late of the story where a couple of starting monsters attack and the characters notice how they have gotten more experienced. Some may boast etc...

Edit1; Oh my horrible grammar...
Last edited by Burnsaber on Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Balthazar » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:43 pm

There was something similar in Heroes of Might and Magic III (and perhaps the others in the series, I only played the third installment).

You had a sort of diplomacy and power rating. Basically, when you came across a group of monsters, there was a chance that you could buy them off, and a smaller chance that they would actually want to join your group. Now, that wouldn't work in our game because of differing formats, but it is an interesting idea.
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Postby Roots » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:49 pm

But remember in HoA the stronger you are, the more likely you are to encounter enemies of similar strength, so in effect we do have this feature. It's just we don't directly show the weaker foes cowering in fear at your l33t powers :heh:
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Postby Burnsaber » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:39 pm

Hmmm... I need to be clearer what i mean now on. Maybe i shouldn`t post right after i have drunk two cups of coffee :eyespin: .

Clear version- I would like some dialogue where the characters talk about their powers and how they have gotten more experienced. Maybe after scrpted battle with weak monsters or without. In FFs black mages never mention the fact that they can shoot fireballs or freeze stuff to -100 C. Wouldn`t you mention those things to someone if you could do that kind of things?
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Postby Balthazar » Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:56 am

Well, perhaps if you were extraordinary in an ordinary world. To us, someone being able to summon a fireball from their hands is incredible.

However, when creating your own universe, the characters have their own sense of what's "fantastic" and what's not. You can see evidence of that even in our own world. Take someone from 100 years ago and tell them about computers or automobile technology and see how seriously they take you.

I think that to so frankly state that: "Hey, we have godlike powers." really breaks the illusion you create when telling a story. It breaks the "fourth wall" as it were.
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Postby Burnsaber » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:09 pm

I thought about what you said and it depends on how common magic (shortened from = ability to cast fireballs) is. If it is something extraordinary, then it is reasonable to mention it. But if it`s common then no (after all, warriors do not mention that they can slash with their swords). Im right now under heavy influence of BG2-- one of my favourite games ever (well will see if Allocrost can someday take its place). It has these "mentions", but they are quite rare (like they should be- it just bugs me that there are none in FFs).

I`ll just for excample, mention one of these "mentions". The situation is like this, you are given quest to enstrenghten the seals that are holding a powerfull demon. If you kill it instead (like i did ), you`re employers aren`t happy. After their whining, one of the characters named Edwin, who has a strange habit to *mutter* ...things... anwsers them like this.

Oh, were so TERRIBLY sorry for your GRIEVIOUS error. (Those fools.. hmmm.. fireball..heheeh.. maybe a second one.. yes..)

The scene had voice acting and the sentence was said in sarcastic sense.

In this case, the mention made Edwin much more characteristic. But in the end, BG is quite far from "traditional" RPG. So things that work in BG do not necesarily work in more "traditional" RPG;s. Mjeh.. it took me 7 days to realize that..

Maybe, instead you could have scenes where mages and the like use their powers outside battle. Like mage cooking water with fire-spell or illusionist creating a funny practical joke with his powers etc.. This is a "mention" of their powers, without breaking the "fourth wall".
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Postby Guest » Tue May 10, 2005 11:00 pm

In FFVI, after Figaro's first submersion.

Locke:     Edgar, what's the matter? You look positively spooked!
Edgar:     Ddddddddid you just see what I saw...?
Locke:     Yeah... this kid seems loaded for bear...
Edgar:     She's amazing! That was magic! MAGIC!
Locke:     M M M M M M MAGIC!? She used magic?
Edgar Locke: Pswswswsw! Pswswswsw!!
Edgar:     Terra... where on earth did you learn that?
Terra:     ... Sorry... I... um...
Locke:     Look, I didn't mean to make such a big deal of this...
Edgar:     Me either... It's just that I've never actually SEEN magic before!
          Where did you...?
Terra:     ...
Locke:     Edgar, Terra can use magic, and we can't. That's the only
          difference between us. The fact is... we could use her help!

I could mention a few other possibilities, but I think this is the best example of what you're looking for (the next-closest might be Beatrix in FFIX, but other than that, I'll have to agree in terms of available playable characters.  Not sure if Sephiroth can be counted, since he's able to be in your party, but he's so stuck up that you can't control him for the small amount of time he's in the party :p).
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Re: Signs of power

Postby Rain » Fri May 13, 2005 9:15 am

Burnsaber wrote:There is a one bad thing i have noticed in Final Fantasies and its siblings. I would be quite delighted to find that this game wouldn`t have the same bad thing. Im talking about "Signs of Power"-issue.

The thing is that in Final Fantasies and stuff you gain awesome powers to defeat the gods themeselves, but who cares? Or notices? I find it quite strange that the character don`t say anything about it. "Hey look, i can defeat demigods and horrible monsters with ease! Who cares? Better not ot talk about it." I myself would boast like there wouldn`t be tomorrow, not all would react this way but no-one would just left it unmentioned!



Realism is boring.  We play a game to escape the laws of reality. Let me put it like this...If the laws of reality are so exciting, why do we need a game to entertain ourselves?  If we were completely content with reality, we would have no need to dream.  In games, anything is possible and its important to constantly realize that.  What I am saying is that we needn't subject ourselves or the "created" worlds that we allow ourselves to walk in, to any judgment based upon the realities in which we live our every day lives.

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